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Re: THAT'S THE TRUTH

Posted by Becki Fahle on September 02, 2002 at 18:14:27:

In Reply to: THAT'S THE TRUTH posted by curator 911 museum.com on August 04, 2002 at 18:17:29:

Warning: Long Post

Despite your comments to the contrary, it is obvious you have not consulted (or at least have not listened to) an informed attorney.

You have confused a durable power of attorney (DPOA) with a Directive to Physicians ("living will"). This is common for do-it-yourselfers, but rare for someone who has talked to a living, breathing, informed attorney.

A living will gives instructions to your family/physicians in the event that you have a *terminal* condition (often defined as six months or less to live). If you are not terminal, what you instruct in a living will (concerning pain medication and life saving actions) is completely irrelevant.

A DPOA is for health care when you are mentally disabled, but physically not terminal, and unable to instruct--or unable to instruct completely-- concerning your own medical care. The DPOA provides a medical decision-maker of your choice for you, who usually must follow your wishes, but who in the end is responsible for making decisions that may not comport with what you would have done (because the alternative--assisting suicide or neglect--is illegal and generally criminal).

A DPOA which only permits medication for pain just means you won't be *medicated* for your condition. It doesn't mean that you won't live, a very long time, with a condition which needs long-term care.

In fact, by ordering that you cannot be medicated (assuming that is in your DPOA, and not just your Directive), you are virtually guaranteeing that you will have to go into an institution, because your family members will not be able to control a full-grown adult male who does not have all his faculties, but is healthy physically.

Almost *all* physically healthy mentally disabled persons (Alzheimers, et al) eventually develop "wanderlust," this is why it is inappropriate to commit an Alzheimer's victim to a nursing home without a lock-down ward. You will be able to wander off at will in your family's home, because presumably your family cannot restrain you (and furthermore, as you are an adult male, it would be dangerous for them to try).

What you have done is condemn your family to use up not only your resources, but their own. You have instructed your healthcare decision-maker not to medicate you. You have not instructed your health care decision-maker not to feed you, or keep you out of traffic when you decide to play there. And, obviously, it would be illegal for your health care provider/decision-maker to follow those instructions if you made them.

Furthermore, what happens if they develop a cure for Alzheimers (or some other mind-debilitating disease)? You have instructed them not to give you the cure.

IMHO, a court would invalidate your instructions if asked, and they probably will be asked, because your family will *not* be able to take care of you 24-7, and you have selfishly decided to impose upon them without giving them any of the resources necessary to handle the imposition. And no nursing home in the known universe is going to take you if they can't give you appropriate medications.

What you've described isn't "another alternative." This is a selfish decision by an uninformed person with no concern for the future needs of his/her family; who is unwilling to provide for his own needs in the future and is going to steal from his family's future; and who is only interested in doing what is in his/her own selfish current interests (keep money that should be used to provide for his future needs).

And who furthermore, has failed to investigate the actual legal consequences of what s/he suggests and is spreading not just misinformation, but completely incorrect assumptions stated as fact, on the net.

I personally have no interest in the sale of LTC insurance. I also personally have no interest in what you inflict upon your family. But stop talking about DPOAs and "living wills" as if you know what you are talking about. You don't, and it confuses uninformed laypeople.

Becki Fahle
Guardianship Attorney, Licensed in Texas only.
Laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Nothing in this email should be construed as specific legal advice tailored to a specific situation. Only a fool would rely on legal advice propagated over the net. If you need legal advice upon which you can rely, hire a licensed attorney in your own jurisdiction.

: If I develop ALZ it triggers the POA clause - someone else is now in charge or my healthcare - that means they cannot authorize, request, require, demand, or in any other way administer any drugs to me other than pain killers. Didn't think that's legal I suppose, but it is. No one can inject me with anything I don't authorize, eh?

: : What happens if you develop ALZ? No way to have the plug pulled and your thinking process can become so scrambled you don't know "your a-- from a hole in the ground" Think of the impact on your family and finances if they have to care for you. They either have to take care of you or hire helpers or put you in the nursing home. What will care cost in 5, 10,15, 20 years. If you fully understand the odds, fully understand future costs, and have enough assets that paying a couple of thousand dollars a year doesn't impact your standard of living, I can't imagine not shifting this risk to an insurance company. I assume you have insurance on your house andn the likelihood of having a fire are much less than a long term care claim.
: : : My POA's instructions are that if she ever has to fulfill the function, she is to not have me medicated for any ailment, and I can only be given pain medication. I've talked it over with my son (and other close family members), he's aware of my feelings, and the instructions I've given to my POA, even though at his young age he may not fully understand or agree. My point is these are my wishes, not anyone elses. I've been visiting my Mother in the nursing home for 2 years now and I see how people linger. I don't want to, so I've made my wishes known. If those close to me don't abide by my wishes, then they assume the guilt and responsibilty for any change in plans. If they abide by my wishes, their conscious is clear because they did what I asked. I understand when you're dealing with lawyers, the courts, the government, the medical community, funeral directors, etal, things can change and the waters get muddy, just ask Ted Williams family. But I think I've made my wishes clearly known, and preserved the majority of my assets for my heirs, not for long term care.

Follow Ups:

Re: THAT'S THE TRUTH : Warning: Long Post : Despite your comments to the contrary, it is obvious you have not consulted (or at least have not listened to) an informed attorney. : You have confused a durable power of attorney (DPOA) with a Directive to Physicians ("living will"). This is common for do-it-yourselfers, but rare for someone who has talked to a living, breathing, informed attorney. : A living will gives instructions to your family/physicians in the event that you have a *terminal* condition (often defined as six months or less to live). If you are not terminal, what you instruct in a living will (concerning pain medication and life saving actions) is completely irrelevant. : A DPOA is for health care when you are mentally disabled, but physically not terminal, and unable to instruct--or unable to instruct completely-- concerning your own medical care. The DPOA provides a medical decision-maker of your choice for you, who usually must follow your wishes, but who in the end is responsible for making decisions that may not comport with what you would have done (because the alternative--assisting suicide or neglect--is illegal and generally criminal). : A DPOA which only permits medication for pain just means you won't be *medicated* for your condition. It doesn't mean that you won't live, a very long time, with a condition which needs long-term care. : In fact, by ordering that you cannot be medicated (assuming that is in your DPOA, and not just your Directive), you are virtually guaranteeing that you will have to go into an institution, because your family members will not be able to control a full-grown adult male who does not have all his faculties, but is healthy physically. : Almost *all* physically healthy mentally disabled persons (Alzheimers, et al) eventually develop "wanderlust," this is why it is inappropriate to commit an Alzheimer's victim to a nursing home without a lock-down ward. You will be able to wander off at will in your family's home, because presumably your family cannot restrain you (and furthermore, as you are an adult male, it would be dangerous for them to try). : What you have done is condemn your family to use up not only your resources, but their own. You have instructed your healthcare decision-maker not to medicate you. You have not instructed your health care decision-maker not to feed you, or keep you out of traffic when you decide to play there. And, obviously, it would be illegal for your health care provider/decision-maker to follow those instructions if you made them. : Furthermore, what happens if they develop a cure for Alzheimers (or some other mind-debilitating disease)? You have instructed them not to give you the cure. : IMHO, a court would invalidate your instructions if asked, and they probably will be asked, because your family will *not* be able to take care of you 24-7, and you have selfishly decided to impose upon them without giving them any of the resources necessary to handle the imposition. And no nursing home in the known universe is going to take you if they can't give you appropriate medications. : What you've described isn't "another alternative." This is a selfish decision by an uninformed person with no concern for the future needs of his/her family; who is unwilling to provide for his own needs in the future and is going to steal from his family's future; and who is only interested in doing what is in his/her own selfish current interests (keep money that should be used to provide for his future needs). : And who furthermore, has failed to investigate the actual legal consequences of what s/he suggests and is spreading not just misinformation, but completely incorrect assumptions stated as fact, on the net. : I personally have no interest in the sale of LTC insurance. I also personally have no interest in what you inflict upon your family. But stop talking about DPOAs and "living wills" as if you know what you are talking about. You don't, and it confuses uninformed laypeople. : Becki Fahle : Guardianship Attorney, Licensed in Texas only. : Laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Nothing in this email should be construed as specific legal advice tailored to a specific situation. Only a fool would rely on legal advice propagated over the net. If you need legal advice upon which you can rely, hire a licensed attorney in your own jurisdiction. : : : If I develop ALZ it triggers the POA clause - someone else is now in charge or my healthcare - that means they cannot authorize, request, require, demand, or in any other way administer any drugs to me other than pain killers. Didn't think that's legal I suppose, but it is. No one can inject me with anything I don't authorize, eh? : : : What happens if you develop ALZ? No way to have the plug pulled and your thinking process can become so scrambled you don't know "your a-- from a hole in the ground" Think of the impact on your family and finances if they have to care for you. They either have to take care of you or hire helpers or put you in the nursing home. What will care cost in 5, 10,15, 20 years. If you fully understand the odds, fully understand future costs, and have enough assets that paying a couple of thousand dollars a year doesn't impact your standard of living, I can't imagine not shifting this risk to an insurance company. I assume you have insurance on your house andn the likelihood of having a fire are much less than a long term care claim. : : : : My POA's instructions are that if she ever has to fulfill the function, she is to not have me medicated for any ailment, and I can only be given pain medication. I've talked it over with my son (and other close family members), he's aware of my feelings, and the instructions I've given to my POA, even though at his young age he may not fully understand or agree. My point is these are my wishes, not anyone elses. I've been visiting my Mother in the nursing home for 2 years now and I see how people linger. I don't want to, so I've made my wishes known. If those close to me don't abide by my wishes, then they assume the guilt and responsibilty for any change in plans. If they abide by my wishes, their conscious is clear because they did what I asked. I understand when you're dealing with lawyers, the courts, the government, the medical community, funeral directors, etal, things can change and the waters get muddy, just ask Ted Williams family. But I think I've made my wishes clearly known, and preserved the majority of my assets for my heirs, not for long term care.

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